How to Beat a NYC Parking Ticket for "No Standing-Bus Stop"

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How to Beat a NYC Parking Ticket for "No Standing-Bus Stop"

Posted by Larry Berezin on Thu, Jul 23, 2009 @ 03:36 PM

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Larry's Blog has received a rash of questions about NYC parking tickets for violating Code 19: No Standing-Bus Stop.

Can I be issued a NYC parking ticket when I only stopped in a bus stop zone to drop off or pick up a passenger?
How do I know the length of a bus stop? I was parked far away from the bus stop sign?
Can I look for a yellow painted curb to designate a bus stop zone?

The NYC parking rule

Violation Code (VC) 19 prohibits:

Bus Stop: Standing or parking where standing is prohibited by sign, street marking or; traffic control device

Traffic Rules, Chapter 4-08(c)(3) states:

No person shall stand or park a vehicle orther than an authorized bus in its assigned bus stop when any such stop has been officially designated and appropriately posted except that the operator of a vehicle may temporarily stand therein for the purpose of expeditiously receiving and discharging passengers provided such standing does not interfere with any bus about to enter or leave such zone

Commentary

Here's my take on the subject:

You can beat a bus stop ticket if you are dropping off or picking up a passenger.
Don't expect to find a yellow curb to indicate a bus stop zone. That would be too easy
The parking signs on the block hold the secret to the length of a bus stop zone. There must be at least one official NYC parking sign that designates the beginning of a bus stop zone, with an arrow indicating the direction(s) of the bus stop zone. There does not have to be a second bus stop sign to indicate the end of the bus stop zone.
The bus stop sign regulates the portion of the block in the direction of the arrow until the next NYC parking sign. The bus stop zone ends at the next NYC parking sign.
If the one official bus stop sign has arrows pointing in both directions, then the bus stop zone goes in both directions until you reach another NYC parking sign or the end of the block.

[Editor's note: NYC buses are 40-45 feet in length]

A bus stop in NYC can cause some pain in the pocketbook. How many of you are old enough to remember the Hollies song about love at a bus stop? Enjoy the music.

Please share your experiences with NYC parking tickets for bus stop violations. It will help all of us.

Tags: bus stop violation

Comments

Am visiting New York. Got a ticket today for supposedly parking at a bus stop area. How do you deteremine the beginning and ending of a bus stop area to know if you are in violation or not?

Posted @ Wednesday, September 23, 2009 1:25 AM by Dennis Tirado

Dennis,

So sorry for missing your comment. Hopefully, better late than never.

The bus stop sign marks the beginning of a bus stop zone, regulates the portion of the block in the direction of the arrow, and ends at the next NYC parking sign.

A bus stop zone may extend the entire block in both directions.

Posted @ Monday, October 26, 2009 12:26 PM by Larry Berezin

The New York Driver’s Manual and Study Guide (Chapter 7) contains absolutely no information regarding bus stop parking guidelines (e.g. where it starts, where it ends, applicable laws, etc.)

http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/dmanual/default.html

There is NO documentation anywhere explaning the do's and dont's of the law regarding this regulation.

Is it fair to assess a driver a $115 fine for a regulation that is not documented? I am from out of state visiting NY.

One day I parked there, no ticket. Locals did not know the law and commented they thought it was ok. Next day I park there, get a ticket. $115 is a tough way to learn a new law.

I feel this is a money making scam.

I parked 200+ away from the bus stop. There was a fire hydrant and a driveway in the "bus stop" lane. I have been driving for 35+ years and observe the traffic laws WHEN THEY ARE DOCUMENTED.

Larry Nerezin replied to me, but I am currently continuing to appeal the ticket. I was offered a $25 discount if I just paid it off by mail. Or, can accept an administrative judge to decide, but then would have to pay the fill $115 if they find against me.

Posted @ Monday, October 26, 2009 1:44 PM by Dennis Tirado

Dennis,

I hear you loud and clear; and you are not alone. You may wish to read this article from the NYT.
Link:
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/12/complaint-box-no-standing/?apage=3

I receive many calls, letters and comments on Larry's Blog about the challenges you correctly raise regarding bus stop violations.

You may wish to check out NYC Traffic Rules, Title 19 Chapter 4-08(c)(3); and VC 19, which prohibit parking or standing in a bus stop zone.

You must consider these rules together with the rules covering parking signs to uncover the hidden meaning of how to determine the length of a bus stop zone. Generally, there will always be one sign, displaying a little bus and an arrow pointing in one or both directions. This designates the beginning of a bus stop zone. The arrow on a NYC parking sign indicates the portion of a block regulated by the rule on the parking sign:

In the direction of the arrow;
until the next parking sign, or the end of the block.

A bus stop sign, with an arrow pointing to the left means that the bus stop zone extends to the left of the sign until the next parking sign to the left, or the end of the block to the left. A NYC bus is about 45 feet long. A bus stop zone may be 45 feet or 465 feet. The distance you park from the sign is not relevant.

The bus stop zone extends from the bus stop sign, in the direction of the arrow until the next sign or the end of the block; however long the distance may be.

Good luck with your appeal Let us know how you make out

Posted @ Monday, October 26, 2009 3:08 PM by Larry Berezin

Thanks for the prompt reply. I read the information you sent me, there is no clear explanation of the bus lane parking violation law.

I am going to continue appealing this ticket - it is a hefty fine. And will escalate higher when the appropriate time comes.

What happens if I don't pay it? Just can't come visit New York again.... and spend my money elsewhere?

Posted @ Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:05 AM by Dennis Tirado

Dennis,

Did you have any luck?

Posted @ Monday, November 09, 2009 5:11 PM by Dan

Larry,

I got stuck with a bus zone ticket. I took pictures and just looked them over. I understand the law about the arrow and the end of the zone marked by the next sign. But, I feel I may have an arguement...

My arguement if it is one, is that there is a pole that looks like it used to hold a sign but someone ripped it down. That sign would have marked the end of the bus zone and I would have been parked outside that zone. The area has several vandalized signs which I also have pictures of. Is there anything to this? The officer also didn't write down my VIN #. Does that mean anything?

Thanks,

Dan

Posted @ Thursday, November 12, 2009 7:32 AM by Dan

Dan,
Thanks for taking your valuable time to visit our website and share your parking ticket experience. I'll answer your second question, first. A missing VIN #, unfortunately, does not entitle you to a dismissal of your parking ticket.

Good thinking about a possible defense to your parking ticket. Generally, we raise the defense of a missing or defaced sign to fight a parking ticket issued for a violation of the rule displayed on the missing sign.

Parking ticket warriors can be pretty amazing. Imagine issuing a ticket based upon a rule contained on sign that is no longer attached to the pole. It's the old "empty pole violation."

In your case, your defense involves arguing that the missing sign would have designated the end of the bus zone, had it not be removed from the pole. Interesting, it may work. You may wish to attach a photograph of the sign that was on the pole, before it was "removed," along with your photographs.

Good luck.

Posted @ Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:55 AM by Larry Berezin

Larry, I received a ticket for parking in a bus stop. The bus stop sign starts in the middle of the block but has no clear designation of its end. I see that you have addressed this part of my description before, however. The bus stop sign has no arrows pointing in either direction, and the bus does not run between 10:42pm and 6:32am. I was parked on the corner by the crosswalk and received the ticket around 3:30am. Does this sound like I have a decent chance of thwarting this ticket?

Thanks,
Chaun

Posted @ Sunday, November 29, 2009 12:02 AM by Chaun

I appealed my stopping in a bus stop and got reduced to $90 from $150. I could have let it go to law judge but ran risk of paying in full. So I was extorted the $90.

Posted @ Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:58 PM by sheila

Chaun,
Wow. You guys keep me young with all your excellent questions. We all know what arrows mean on a sign. But, as Chaun asks, what if there are no arrows?

I believe, but I'm not 100% sure, when a bus stop sign has no arrow, it probably extends in both directions until the next parking sign, or the end of the block.

Can any one of our visitors or friends shed some more light on this subject? Love to hear from you. My suggestion, absent someone coming to our rescue, is to apply for the reduction.

Good luck.

Posted @ Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:12 PM by Larry Berezin

Hi Larry,

I just went online to pay a meter ticket and saw an outstanding ticket for a "no standing bus stop" violation..which is now up to $165 or something crazy. I not only never got this ticket, but I have never stopped in front of that bus stop. Maybe I was dropping someone off? Do I have any way of arguing this ticket?

Thanks so much.

Posted @ Wednesday, December 09, 2009 7:37 PM by michelle

I got a ticket for stopping in a bus stop. I asked the agent if I could drop off my daughter. She said no and I moved along. I never got the first ticket but got the second notice plus penalty. I did appeal with an affadavit from my daughter supporting my allegations. I only got a reduced amount and could chose an ALJ review. You either get found 100% innocent or pay full amount. Since I do SSA claims and know all about ALJ decisions I wasnt up for some arbitrary decision an ALJ pulls out of his you know what. I paid the $90 reduced fine and wrote extortion in the memo line. I also filed a Civilian Review Board Complaint and wrote to the mayor. This is an excellent source of funds for the city. Don't get crazy with fighting the beaucracy - it will never work. Just discharge your frustration by holding their feet to the fire. If you google about these meter maids, they had a law passed increasing the penalty for assaulting them. Tells you the level of frustration they create.

Posted @ Thursday, December 10, 2009 7:48 AM by shiela

This is the first time I have visited your site. I have read some interesting comments. I received a "No Standing Bus Stop" ticket and just got the letter back today. I have chosen to "contest the summons" I was a great distance from the bus stop sign. I was actually parked at the next sign which was designated street parking. It was pouring rain but I did take pictures of both signs and my vehicle before I drove off. I wanted to know the legal distance of the bus stop. Since that is not available. I will still use the information I received from your site and my photos to contest. I will let you know the outcome. Thanks

Posted @ Thursday, December 10, 2009 5:42 PM by MARIE

Sheila,
Thanks for taking your valuable time to visit our website. You insights resonate with us. You must continue to fight when you're right. Especially when you have the skill to engage your accuser; a little piece of paper.

Kudos for your gumption. Please let us know the outcome.

Posted @ Friday, December 11, 2009 6:11 PM by Larry Berezin

Marie,
You are very welcome. Thanks so much for sharing your experience. It will help us all.

There is no legal distance for a bus stop. A bus stop zone starts with the No Standing-Bus Stop sign and extends in the direction of the arrow until the next parking sign. You are required to park beyond the next sign to avoid a parking ticket.

So, if you parked in between the "No Standing-Bus Stop" sign and the next parking sign, you violated the rule. If not, and your photographs back you up, and your affidavit is in order, you should win.

I've written several blog posts on the subject. I hope the posts were helpful.

Good luck. I can't wait to hear the outcome.

Posted @ Friday, December 11, 2009 6:19 PM by Larry Berezin

i got ticketed for no standing in bus stop area. but i just went in to dominoes to pick-up my order and the bus sign was further up from my car. I didnot take any pictures, so how do i appeal not guilty???

Posted @ Monday, December 14, 2009 6:34 PM by trisha

Trisha,
Thank you for stopping by our website and posting some great questions.

VC 40: No Standing-Bus Stop. The defense to a parking ticket is you were stopped temporarily to drop off or pick up a passenger; and did not interfere with a bus entering or departing the bus stop zone. You can't run into dominoes to pick up your pizza.

Keep in mind that a bus stop zone is not measured by distance. It runs from the bus stop sign to the next parking sign; or the end of the block (in the direction of the arrow(s). A bus stop can extend for an entire NYC block.

Under your case history, you may wish to apply for a reduced fine.

Happy Holidays. Park safely!

Posted @ Tuesday, December 15, 2009 3:15 PM by Larry Berezin

Mickhaela,
I apologize for the delay in responding to your important question. There has been a lot of traffic on the bus stop post; and I overlooked your comment. Me bad!

Without more information, and taking a look at your ticket, I'm afraid it is difficult for me to give you an accurate response.

If you'd like to submit a form with your information, I'm happy to help.

Good luck.

Posted @ Thursday, December 17, 2009 10:10 AM by Larry Berezin

Hi Larry. A few months ago I got a ticket for parking in a bus stop zone in NY. Not being from NYC and not being able to locate any NYC driver's manual detailing the bus stop zone parking details, I decided to make an appeal. The undocumented "secret" of the length of the bus stop zone is a shame on NYC officials who prey on the unsuspecting.

Anyway, I received a reply that my appeal had been received, and a one time offer to reduce the fine by $25 to $90. I replied that I was not going to pay because I stil did not understand what I had done wrong, or how I could have ever known.

Three months later, I received a notice that my ticket has been dismissed,not on the merits of the case I presented, but because of an incorrect detail that had been noted on the ticket by the parking officer. The reviewer caught this error on his own and dismissed the ticket.

Law 238 reads "(b) If any information which is required to be inserted on a notice of violation is omitted from the notice of violation, misdescribed, or illegible, the violation shall be dismissed upon application of the person charged with the violation."

Might be a worthwhile option in some case, for your readers.

Posted @ Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:07 PM by Dennis

Great tips, thank you! My car was 47 feet from the bus stop sign, and I was thinking on arguing that I was enough far away (it would be worth a $25 discount anyway). However, after reading all the entries, I realize that two details in my ticket are incorrect: the color is described as black but it's green, and the body type is described as 4DSD when it's a station wagon. Do you think the fine will be disqualified based on that?

Posted @ Monday, January 18, 2010 9:33 PM by Giovanni Ciriani

Giovanni,
The world loves a winner; and you are a winner! Before we get to the good stuff, don't forget a bus stop zone is not measured in feet. It starts from the bus stop sign and extends until the next parking sign, in the direction of the arrow. If no other parking signs on the block, the bus stop zone extends to the end of the block.

Now, the good news is body time is a required element. If omitted, misdescribed or illegible, you are entitled to a dismissal of your parking ticket upon application.

The world loves a winner and so does New York Parking Ticket.
Congratulations, Giovanni.

Posted @ Tuesday, January 19, 2010 1:25 PM by Larry Berezin

Dennis,
It was incredibly nice of you to share your great story with us. I have written numerous articles and replies to blog comments about omitted, misdescribed or illegible required elements. Your comment gives me another chance to remind our readers about the benefits of checking the front of your parking tickets for mistakes, before crushing, stomping, or crumpling up the ticket.

You are right about the bus stop violation rule. You may wish to read Giovanni's comment and my reply below. We try to publish articles on Larry's Blog that alert members of the driving public to rules and information not easily discoverable on the DOT or DOF web site. The information may be there; but sometimes is hidden behind the hot dog truck.

Thanks again for sharing your experience, which benefits all of us.

Posted @ Tuesday, January 19, 2010 1:34 PM by Larry Berezin

i got towed for parking in an "illegal spot"- apparently it was a bus spot, but there was no arrow stating "no parking" from there to the bus stop which was ahead of my car. doesn't there need to be a "no standing" sign with an arrow showing where a car can't park?

Posted @ Wednesday, March 03, 2010 5:12 PM by Rebecca Soper

Rebecca
I'm so sorry for your ticket and tow. Here is a link to an article I published that will answer your question. Even has a diagram.

http://www.newyorkparkingticket.com/Blog/bid/29041/How-to-Avoid-a-Parking-Ticket-for-Fire-Hydrant-Bus-Stop-VIolations

If you still have any questions after checking out the post, please feel free to ask.

Good luck.

Posted @ Wednesday, March 03, 2010 8:06 PM by Larry Berezin

Hi Larry:

I just got a for "No Standing Bus Stop", VC #19 last night. I read through your Blogs and find a lot of helpful information. thank you first!

Here is what happened:

1) I were picking up one friend and have to stop the car to call him back since I just missed his call and don't know his location. So it ends up I'm standing in bus stop zone since all street or meter parking is occupied. At that moment, no bus is entering or leaving bus zone.

2) A traffic agent stop his car in front of me. He scan my registration first and was writing a ticket. I told him I am calling my friend to pick him up. He told me here is not a talking zone. At the same time, my friend arrive and he saw it. Then he just hand me the ticket without a word.

Please tell me if the following a couple of things will help:

1) He mis-spell my last name, missing one letter as "Chan".

2) I do have AT&T cellular phone usage record to indicate a call on 10:29pm to my friend and he gave me ticket at 10:31pm.

Do I have a chance to be a winner?

Thank you!

Jack

Posted @ Friday, March 05, 2010 1:23 AM by Jack Chang

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How to Beat a NYC Parking Ticket for "No Standing-Bus Stop"

Larry's Blog has received a rash of questions about NYC parking tickets for violating Code 19: No Standing-Bus Stop.

The NYC parking rule

Commentary

Comments