Larry's Blog

is it considered double parking if you're in the vehicle and waiting on a parking spot, after that person told you he would be moving momentarily? thanks.

can a medical excuse of dropping off and picking up an injured passenger be enough to excuse you from a double parking ticket? thanks

has anyone received such a summons? can it be fought?

David, 
 
Thanks for visiting our website and posing two very though provoking questions. 
 
You ask, "Is waiting for a parking stop considered double parking?"  
NYC Traffic Rules, Section  
4-08(f)(1)deals with "double parking" 
(f) General No Standing zones (standing and parking prohibited in specified 
places). No person shall stand or park a vehicle in any of the following places, unless 
otherwise indicated by posted signs, markings or other traffic control devices, or at the 
direction of a law enforcement officer: 
(1) Double parking. On the roadway side of a vehicle stopped, standing, or 
parked at the curb, except a person may stand a commercial vehicle.... 
 
PARKING is defined as "The standing of a vehicle, whether occupied or not, otherwise than temporarily for the purpose of and while actually engaged in loading or unloading property or passengers. 
STANDING is defined as the stopping of a vehicle, whether occupied or not, otherwise than temporarily for the purpose of and while actually engaged in receiving or discharging passengers. 
STOPPING is defined as any haulting even momentarily of a vehicle, whether occupied or not. 
 
Technically, applying the letter of the law, stopping to wait for a driver to vacate a parking space is double parking. However, I think a very strong argument can be made that stopping under the circumstances you describe does not violate the spirit of the law; or the evil a prohibition of double parking prevents. 
 
While I am loathe to suggest a "common sense" approach when dealing with the PVB, the act of parking requires a driver to stop his car, wait momentarily for a parking spot to vacate, and back his/her car into the space.  
 
I was asked a similar question with respect to stopping to parallel park a car. I believe the same argument applies. 
 
Great question. I hope my response is helpful.  
 
 
 

Leah du bac, 
 
I hope we hear back from David. I am very curious about the outcome of his double parking adventures. 
 
We receive questions about double parking all the time. It's much easier to fight if you are driving a commercial vehicle and double park while making a delivery. Generally, for passenger vehicles, our most common approach is to present an affidavit from a passenger stating she was exiting or entering the car.  
 
If David or another customer asked us to fight a parking ticket for double parking while waiting for a driver to vacate the space, we would absolutely fight that ticket! 
 
On the other hand, it is difficult to beat a nyc parking ticket for double parking while waiting for your passenger to finish his business at the location.  
 
We have never been asked to analyze a double parking ticket for an injured passenger. My inclination would be to help our customer and fight the ticket. Don't know if we'd win that one. 
 
What would you do if you were a driver, who just dropped off your injured passenger. Would you double park, or look for a space? 
If you received a parking ticket, would you expect your injured friend to pay the ticket? 

Thanks for visiting our website and posing two very thought provoking questions.  
 
You ask, "Is waiting for a parking spot considered double parking?"  
NYC Traffic Rules, Section  
4-08(f)(1)deals with "double parking"  
(f) General No Standing zones (standing and parking prohibited in specified  
places). No person shall stand or park a vehicle in any of the following places, unless  
otherwise indicated by posted signs, markings or other traffic control devices, or at the  
direction of a law enforcement officer:  
(1) Double parking. On the roadway side of a vehicle stopped, standing, or  
parked at the curb, except a person may stand a commercial vehicle....  
 
PARKING is defined as "The standing of a vehicle, whether occupied or not, otherwise than temporarily for the purpose of and while actually engaged in loading or unloading property or passengers.  
STANDING is defined as the stopping of a vehicle, whether occupied or not, otherwise than temporarily for the purpose of and while actually engaged in receiving or discharging passengers.  
STOPPING is defined as any haulting even momentarily of a vehicle, whether occupied or not.  
 
Technically, applying the letter of the law, stopping to wait for a driver to vacate a parking space is double parking. However, I think a very strong argument can be made that stopping under the circumstances you describe does not violate the spirit of the law; or the evil prohibited by double parking prevents.  
 
While I am loathe to suggest a "common sense" approach when dealing with the PVB, the act of parking requires a driver to stop his car, wait momentarily for a parking spot to vacate, and back his/her car into the space.  
 
I was asked a similar question with respect to stopping to parallel park a car. I believe the same argument applies.  
 
Great question. I hope my response is helpful.  
 
 
 
Posted @ Sunday, March 22, 2009 9:41 PM by lawrence berezin nyparkingticket@optonline.net [Delete] 
David,  
 
Two excellent questions. "Can a medical excuse of dropping off and picking up an injured passenger be enough to excuse you from a double parking ticket?"  
 
STANDING is defined as the stopping of a vehicle, whether occupied or not, otherwise than temporarily for the purpose of and while actually engaged in receiving or discharging passengers.  
 
If you are dropping off or picking up a passenger, it is not a parking violation. However, if you dropped off a passenger, and wait for him/her to finish her visit at the location, you can be issued a summons for double parking, regardless of the reason for your double parking.  
 
Is your question a hypothetical question, or were you or a friend issued a summons for double parking? Please share the results with us.  

is it okay to drop off someone at a busstop I got a ticket for that can i fight it?

Stacey, 
 
Thanks very much for stopping by and leaving a comment. You can beat a bus stop violation if you were dropping off passengers; as long as you were not block a bus. 
 
We are happy to help. 

While exiting a NYC inspection shop I received a call...to answer the call I proceeded to pull over temporarily alongside a car parked by curb.. Total time of the call was under 2 mins...Can I recieved a Double Parking ticket for pulling over to answer quick call??

Juan, 
 
I apologize for not responding sooner. Unfortunately, I don't have a favorable answer for you.  
 
Double parking includes standing on the roadway side of a vehicle parked at the curb. The length of the time you doubled park is not taken into consideration.  
 
A defense to a ticket for double parking is discharging or receiving a passenger. 
 
Good luck

I was backing my car yesterday in Flushing so that I could wait for someone to vacuate the parking spot when a traffice officer came and asked me to stop my car. He then gave me a ticket for double parking while saying 'I am sorry sir' I don't think it is fair since I was not parked there, but rather my car was still in motion. I plan to plead 'not guilty' but worry that I cannot produce any evidence. Do you think I still have the hope to beat the ticket? 
 
 
 
Kenny

Kenny, 
 
Great question, which has been discussed on this and other parking ticket/traffic ticket websites. Here's my take: 
Technically speaking, you were double parked while waiting for a vehicle to vacate the parking space. You are not permitted to stop or stand your vehicle alongside another vehicle that is parked by the curb; unless you are actively engaged in discharging or receiving a passenger (2 minutes or less). 
 
However, the question we discussed was can you stop or stand your vehicle while in the process of parking. Again, technically, NO. But, we all agreed that you must apply common sense to the interpretation of a parking law; and stopping was an essential element of the parking process.  
 
Conclusion: You are permitted to stop your vehicle temporarily to parallel park, or otherwise enter the parking space while engaged in the active process of parking your vehicle. 
 
We are not sure about whether you can beat a parking ticket for waiting alongside a vehicle parked at the curb for a space to become vacant (double parking). I would certainly give it a try,and argue that you were stopped for less than ____ minutes/seconds to parallel park you vehicle while the space was being vacated.  
 
You may have to address the officers comments on the front of the ticket.  
 
Please feel free to call us if you need our help

I got a ticket for parking alongside traffic cones. The traffice cones were put there due to construction.  
 
Does that then make the curb at the traffic cones? I ask because i was ticketed for being in the traffic lane.

I got a ticket for parking alongside traffic cones. The traffice cones were put there due to construction.  
 
Does that then make the curb at the traffic cones? I ask because i was ticketed for being in the traffic lane.

I got a ticket for parking alongside traffic cones. The traffice cones were put there due to construction.  
 
Does that then make the curb at the traffic cones? I ask because i was ticketed for being in the traffic lane.

I was moving along with traffic nearing the Holland Tunnel when traffic came to a halt, the rear of my car remained stuck in the intersection. It was not enough to block cars from crossing the intersection and the traffic cop issued me a ticket. Can I fight that since I had no inkling that traffic was coming to a complete halt and that forced me to stop where I stop.I really did not obstruct traffic flow. Cars were able to move across freely without having to navigate. I suspect a car had squeeze into my lane a few cars in front of me and 
 
caused the halt. Please comment 
 
---- car -------- 
 
rear 
 
 
 
**here is the intersection*** 
 
------------------ 
 

Nancy, 
 
I sincerely feel your frustration. The unreasonable enforcement tactics of the NYC parking ticket warriors ignore the real meaning of VC 9: Obstructing traffic at an intersection. 
 
You may be interested in watching my last blog post video and reading 2 other recent blog posts directly on point with your question. 
 
The tipping point is the condition of the traffic on the opposite side of the box when the light turns green, and you are about to enter the intersection; not whether you are stuck in the box when the light turns red. 
 
How do you prove you were right? My suggestion is to take photos with your cell camera immediately prior to your entry into the box. 
 
I am asking everyone to call or write their city councilperson. Take action to right this wrong!

Michael,  
 
I need a little more info to give you a proper answer to your question. What violation code were you charged with? 
 
If your summons is for VC 45, obstructing a traffic lane, the code prohibits, "stopping, standing or parking in a traffic lane; or if a vehicle extends more than 8 feet from the nearest curb, obstructing traffic." 
 
If your vehicle was in a traffic lane; or more than 8 feet from the curb, it will be a tough one to win. I suggest you check for mistakes on the front of your ticket. If none, you may wish to apply for a reduced fine. 
 
Good luck. 
 

I was dropping my mother off in front our house; I happened to pull into the bus stop to let her out. A traffic cop raced up with sirens and blocked me in to the space and jump out to scan my windshield; i started backing out; she said if I move she will give me another ticket; I started yelling that I was just dropping off a my mom and she told me to shut up or she will give me an additional ticket? Can I beat this ticket? Especially, since we live @ this address; I have witnesses; Also, can an agent give u a ticket for yelling at her? Can an agent give you ticket if you try to drive away before she/he scans your windshield?

Allison, 
 
Thanks for visiting and sharing your NYC parking ticket story, albeit one that makes me cringe. Sirens blasting, nasty exchanges, threats...no place for this bad behavior from a parking ticket warrior.  
 
I'm going to make a suggestion. I encourage our readers to show respect to the parking ticket warriors because they have a nasty, thankless job to perform. 
 
If respect is out of the question, than try silence. You can't win a verbal fight with a warrior; and if you touch him/her you can be indicted for crime of battery. Absolutely, positively not worth it. 
 
The way you win the fight, is to fight when you are right; as in this case. The NYC parking rules permit the driving public to stop or stand temporarily in a bus stop zone while discharging or receiving a passenger; as long as you do not block a bus from entering or departing the bus stop zone. 
 
Congratulations!

is there a regulation that requires the city to notify us of an impending change to alternate side parking regulations before the signs are changed? or can the DOT just put up new signs with no notice overnight?

One Saturday afternoon, I parked in a shopping area that had recently been converted to muni meters. I was completely unaware of this at the time, as I do not usually shop in the area at all and there was nothing visible where I parked to indicate I needed to pay for parking.  
 
 
 
I returned to the car with my daughter 5 mins later to see a traffic warden at the car. I do not know if he was writing a ticket or scanning. I asked him what he was doing and he told me I had not payed and displayed. I replied that I was completely unaware and there was nothing to indicate so, to which he pointed to a muni meter about 20 feet away. I explained that I had no idea and he moved to the sidewalk and I assumed he was OK with that as he never gave me a ticket or asked me to wait. I accordingly, left. 
 
 
 
I received a notice of outstanding parking violation for this, some 6 weeks later. It is $35 with a $10 penalty.  
 
 
 
I know that not seeing a sign is not a sufficient reason to dispute the actual ticket, but I do dispute the penalty if I never knew a parking violation was actually issued.  
 
 
 
Please advise how I should proceed.  
 
 
 
THANKS.

Sandemans, 
 
Your analysis is right on. I recommend the following: 
1. View the image of your parking ticket online at the DOF website 
2. Check the front of the parking ticket for omitted, misdescribed or illegible required elements. If so, fight your parking ticket. 
3. If not, apply for a reduction of your fine. You may wish to check out our blog post on how to apply for a reduction of your parking ticket fine.  
 
Good luck!

Neil, 
I apologize for the delay in responding to your excellent question. I recently returned from a family vacation, and trying to catch up.  
 
I am not aware of any notice requirement prior to changing a parking sign. However, if you parked in a space regulated by one rule; and returned to your vehicle and find a different sign displaying a different parking rule, I absolutely, positively recommend fighting your parking ticket on that basis.  
 
You may wish to check the front of your ticket for any missing required elements, also.  
 
Good luck. Please let us know how you make out with this. It will help our fellow members of the NYC driving public.

Hi. I wonder if there is any defense if the ticket received is from having the muni receipt upside down on the dash so the time is not showing??? Thanks!

David, 
 
Great question. We have success fighting this violation; but it is not a slam dunk. 
 
 
 
On this one, the truth may set you free; as long as you attach a copy of the muni-receipt evidencing you paid for the space and explaining that you mistakenly placed the receipt upside down on the dashboard. 
 
 
 
If you're not feeling lucky, your ticket is eligible for a fine reduction. 
 
 
 
Let us know how you make out. 
 
Good luck!

If you receive a parking ticket and they write the incorrect Make of your car from a ford to a cadillac is this grounds for dismissal?

Steve, 
Thanks for visiting our web site and posting your excellent question. You win!  
 
The Make of your vehicle is a required element, which the warrior must describe correctly on your parking ticket. 
 
Congratulations, Steve.

I received a ticket for parking in a supposed "no parking" zone that is actually not illegal. The sign with the arrow is placed such that a car can fit between the sign and the crosswalk without being in violation of any restriction. If the sign were 1 foot closer to the intersection I would not fit. Obviously, the intent was to make the whole block illegal, but the city's carelessness should not be my problem. I submitted photos of my car parked entirely within the legal section of the block including signs from all angles. I was found guilty and then lost on appeal. I feel so abused, especially because I asked an agent on the street who confirmed the space was technically legal. Now I am thinking of ways I can steal my $65 back from the city. Do I have any other recourse after appeal?

Michael 
I am very sorry about your parking ticket experience, but not surprised. I applaud your tenacity. 
 
The next step in the process moves away from an administrative hearing at the DOF, to the NY Court System. To appeal you appeal, an Article 78 application is file with the court. 
 
Here is some information that may be helpful to you. Good luck! 
 
"An Article 78 proceeding is used to appeal the decision of a New York state or local agency to the New York courts. 
 
What can I do if I get a decision from a New York agency that I disagree with? 
 
If you disagree with an agency decision, you can appeal the decision to the New York courts. This case that you file to appeal the decision is called an "Article 78 Proceeding." It is named after the section of New York law that sets out the rules for this kind of case: Article 78 of the New York Civil Practice Laws and Rules. Most people ask us about this kind of case after they have lost a fair hearing decision against the Department of Social Services (DSS). Some other kinds of decisions by government agencies, such as housing authorities, can also be appealed to a court using the Article 78 proceeding.  
 
Do I need a lawyer? 
 
No, but Article 78 Proceedings are usually filed by a lawyer, so it may be hard to file the papers you need (a notice of petition and a petition) by yourself. We strongly recommend that you find a lawyer to help you. If you do not know of one, you can contact the New York State Lawyer Referral and Information Service. Their toll free number is 1-800-342-3661. They may be able to give you the names of lawyers in the area who handle this type of matter and would be willing to meet with you at the rate of $35 for an initial half-hour consultation.  
 
In what court do I file my appeal? 
 
You usually have to file your appeal in the New York State Supreme Court. Each county has its own Supreme Court. The Supreme Court is usually located at the County Courthouse.  
 
Is there a time deadline for filing an Article 78 proceeding? 
 
Yes. Article 78 proceedings must be filed within four months of the date you receive the fair hearing decision. Check with a lawyer as soon as you can to find out if your deadline is even shorter. 
 
What do I have to do to win? 
 
Many people lose Article 78 proceedings, even in cases that seem very unfair. Only a lawyer who listens to the facts of your case can give you a good answer about whether you may win your case. 
 
One argument you can raise is that the agency didn't follow its own rules when it made the decision. Two of the other things the court can consider are 1) whether the decision was "arbitrary and capricious" or 2) not supported by "substantial evidence". These words have special legal meanings. "Arbitrary and capricious" means the decision is not reasonably related to the facts of the case. "Substantial evidence" is evidence that a reasonable person would accept as enough to support the agency's decision. If you lost a hearing, you probably feel that you should win on both of these issues. New York courts very often decide in favor of the agency if the agency has written down some reason for its decision, even if many people would think the decision was wrong.  
 
Can I do anything else besides filing an Article 78 proceeding? 
 
If your case involves rights protected by the U.S. Constitution or legality of a federal law, you may be able to file a case in the federal court or in the New York State Supreme Court. In that case, you may have up to three years from the date of the fair hearing decision to file your case. It is usually safest to challenge to the fair hearing decision within four months of the date of the decision anyway, or sooner, to make sure that you do not miss a time deadline.